ZUGBLOG: The power of positive thinking?

Monday, August 15, 2005

The power of positive thinking?

This post is only possible because of the book that Fran recently lent me. The history of psychology. A light and highly entertaining account of psychology in a concise and clear manner that does not waffle on in an overly intellectual and cynical manner.

No, seriously. Okay it does. Alot.

But aside from that after having read of it what I have, I am now ready to jump into some Plato and some Socrates. It should be fun.

A contention that I would have with Plato (or Socrates, I can't remember which) is that they believe that man has inside him a good and true nature and that it was through internal reasoning that one could become a better person. This is potentially true. But it may not do you any good. Now guys, I know what the Bible says. That none can lay a foundation other than what Christ has already laid and that God has placed eternity in the hearts of men. That we yearn for that perfection which is always a few inches beyond our reach, no matter how far our reach may become. But I also know that there is a sin nature within me, always trying to lead me away from the call of God, trying to sink me in depravity. I can see that you guys understand what I am saying here. What Plato suggested was that man could work it out for himself using his will and his reasoning ability.

Sorry guys, we can't.

I can bet you guys that Plato would have committed sins that he would have hated himself for. Thing that he would have never told another soul about. But he still understood something that we as christians need to understand. That we have will, we have the ability to reason and that we can use these to improve ourselves. Yet these are insufficient. As Paul said in Romans "I do what I will not to do and I don't do what I will to do." Now Paul was a fairly bright kind of guy. If we have a look at his history what we see is a highly educated young man. But even he, potentially one of the most intelligent philosophers (yes, Paul was a philosopher, he was a lover of wisdom) of his time could not ascribe to the lofty ideals that Plato set out for mankind. Indeed, no-one can. So we know that we cannot change ourselves completely through simply thinking things out and reasoning our path. We must also see that if one has a skewed percption of morality this could actually lead one further and further away from the truth. For example, if a man truly believes that he must "Look out for number one." then more than likely his reasoning will only dig him deeper and deeper into his selfishness. Our minds are good but we must keep an eye on them. As Paul also said "Bringing into captivity every thought that tries to exalt itself against God."

John Wesley (see, told you guys I would do some research) tried to change himself by changing his habits. His belief was that through changing what he did he would change himself. He found that he had only limited success in this area, in that he may have changed a few habits, but the desire to sin was still present in him and in some ways, it was even stronger than before. I can understand him. In attempts to better myself I too am changing my habits. Do I notice improvements? Yes, I do. Has this perfected me? No, I still stumble and I fall. But Thanks to God for His Grace.

So what common theme are we seeing here? Simple. We cannot bring ourselves to fruition through our own strength. It is only God and His grace, His redeeming spirit that can change us and bring us to our destiny.

Josh

11 Comments:

At 6:39 AM, Blogger nata said...

Many of these books about psychology may be useful but only when you look at it through the God's truth and His Word.

I like this post very much. Very good research!

 
At 2:05 AM, Blogger Craig (mars-hill) said...

Is there really much difference? My maxim is: "All truth is God's truth".

Surely our ability to deal with the truth we have (what we do with knowledge) is more important than what knowledge we have?

Now that I phrase it like that, I wonder how it fits into the creation stories. What do people in the community think? Is knowledge (such as 'the knowledge of good and evil') sinful in itself or does it take willfull action based on that to become sinful?

I'm considering this in light of James 1:15 -- When that desire becomes pregnant, it gives birth to sin; when that sin grows up, it gives birth to death. (ISV)

A close reading of James' theology would have us believe that thought processes, such as desire or knowledge, are not sin.

Back to the main point, does anyone else agree that "all truth is God's truth"?

 
At 4:23 AM, Blogger Fran said...

I see what you are saying Marshill however i must comment that "all truth" as you refer to it may not be "all truth" to others. Allow me to explain, If you are in an abusive relationship and that is all you know then that is "your truth" or I should say fear and abuse would be your truth. I believe that the "all truth" you are referring to is God's ultimate truth and it is this truth that should be made known (ie knowledge)by Christians to set free those in bondage by their "truth".

You are right in commenting on thought processes and desires and that these are not sin. It is lack of wisdom and impulse control that turn these into sin.

 
At 4:39 AM, Blogger Fran said...

To comment on Nata's post I note it is psychology that allows us to delve into the human psyche and to understand behaviours, motivations, personalities and emotions. I consider your comment a little vague, being that "psychology is only useful when it is looked at through God's word." Psychology on it's is useful and very much so, God's word can be weaved with psychological concepts and this applied in therapy. Please know that psychology on it's own is an extremely useful manner of helping people. God uses all avenues to change lives. We need to relate to people that don't know Jesus not simply bible bash them. People can know of Jesus' love through your actions. As we all know these speak louder than words...

 
At 6:13 AM, Blogger clafhn said...

My first response on this blog... Nothing to argue about, nothing to even sound remotely profound... I'll blame it on the late hour!

Reading this post, I discovered that I have followed the Wesley mindset for as long as I can remember - tried to change behaviour with limited success. But, reading Joyce Meyer (maybe not as profound as Plato, but quotes much more Scripture!) brought me to the conclusion that this post also brings me to...

All action is driven by thought. We try to change our behaviour by conscious thought when our subconscious thought was quite happy with the old way. (Good old sinful flesh - gotta love it!) But positive thinking is just one of the 'exercises' you can put your mind through to actually change your thought life. As these things sink through to the subconscious, new habits will form automatically, don't you think? Any psychologists care to disagree with me and show up my ignorance? :)

Anyway, I'm reading Joyce Meyer's 'Battlefield of the Mind' at the moment. I never used to appreciate her teaching, but she's proving to be especially helpful on this whole area of thinking (too much!).

 
At 2:46 PM, Blogger Craig (mars-hill) said...

James, I'd also recommend reading Bachus and Dave Riddell.

Fran, thanks for your comments. However, believing a lie is not truth...it's delusion. By agreeing with fantasy you side against the truth. In the traditional Crhsitian metaphor, you join with the devil in rebellion against God.

I agree that it is the truth that sets us free, however it is only very speciifc apllied truth, not the vaguries that so often get applied.

Thanks for getting involved. I've posted a similar question at http://www.opensourcetheology.net, and look forward to seeing how the two posts develop.

Perhaps to refrase the question, would readers agree that everything that is true is in agreement with God?

 
At 5:11 PM, Blogger Joshua Zugai said...

I stirred up a bloody hornets nest with this one. But it's nice to see all you guys talking.

Looking forward to seeing how you guys sort this one out.

 
At 5:35 PM, Blogger Craig (mars-hill) said...

It's so much fun! Feel free to get more involved Josh. What's your take?

 
At 12:15 AM, Blogger Joshua Zugai said...

Truth huh?

An interesting thing for any irishman to ponder.

I think that there is the truth. It is either truth from the Word of God, or truth from the principles that God has put in place. In effect it is all His truth.

 
At 1:29 AM, Blogger Fran said...

I see your point of view Marshill, I dont agree with it completely though. In theory it sounds quite simple. I note religion and God is always a touchy subject. So I will refrain from posting here again considering your opiniated nature. Experience may help you to see a different perspective...

 
At 6:18 PM, Blogger Craig (mars-hill) said...

Fair enough Fran, Thanks for your time. It's in conversations such as these that I hope to challenge and hone my perspectives.

Josh, thanks for the provocation and the space to explore.

For those that care, the conversation continues at http://www.opensourcetheology.net/node/698

 

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